0:00 Buddhist meditation is sometimes called a mystical form of enlightenment. What does that mean? Well, it depends on who you ask, but William James, the great American psychologist who we heard from in the first lecture, said that there are two hallmarks of a mystical experience. He said that, that first it is noetic, and second, it is ineffable.

佛教徒的冥修有时候被称为神秘形式的开悟。那是什么意思，它取决于你问的谁。但是William James说，最伟大的美国心理学家，我们在第一课中听说过，说，一个神秘经验有两种特征，他说，第一个是抽象的，第二个是不可言喻的。

mystical：神秘的；神秘主义的 hallmarks：标志;特征;特点 noetic：抽象的 ineffable：言语难以表达的;不可言喻的

By noetic he meant that there is a sense that knowledge has been imparted. That, that some deep insight has been apprehended. And by ineffable he meant that it's hard to express exactly what the experience was like. Why the person is so convinced of the truth of this deep insight.

抽象的，他是指，有一种感觉，知识被传授。那，某些深的洞察，被理解了。不可言喻的，他是指，很难精确地表达，那个经验像什么。为什么那个人如此确信那个深洞察力的真理。

imparted：传授;告知

And if you want an illustration of what exactly James meant by inept ability, one thing you can do is talk to a kind of serious Buddhist meditator who has had the experience, while meditating, of not-self. And by that, I don't mean the kind of modest version of not-self that we've talked about.

如果你想要一个幻觉，James确切地用无能能力？来指代，一个东西，你能做的，是跟有那个经验-在冥想中非我-的严肃佛教徒冥修者谈话，通过那个，我不是指，温和版本的非我，我们之前谈论过的。

inept：笨拙，不恰当的，无能的

Where, you know, you, you say well I don't have to identify with that particular feeling. That feeling doesn't have to be part of myself. I mean full on, extreme not-self, where the person becomes convinced, that there is no self in there. If you ask such a meditator to kind of describe the experience, often what you'll hear is, sorry, I can't describe it.

你知道，你说好吧，我不必认同那个特别的感觉。那个感觉不必是我的一部分。我是指，完全，在极端的非我，那个人变得确信，有‘无我’在那里。如果你问这样一个冥想者，描述那个经验，常常，你会听到的是，对不起，我不能描述它。

Sometimes you find somebody who is game, who'll give it a shot and even then, when they start talking about it you kind of see what James meant by ineffable. It, the, that it does, def, defy really clear articulation. Well anyway one person, who agreed to talk to me a little about, about such an experience is Rodney Smith. He's a very highly regarded meditation teacher.

有时候你发现某人，在游戏，他会给它一击，甚至，然后，当他们开始谈论它，你有点儿像被James用不可言喻指代的东西。它，它确实无法描述真的清楚的经验，好吧，无论如何，有一个人，是Rodney Smith，他同意跟我谈一点点，关于这种经验。他是一个非常受尊敬的冥想老师。

defy：无法，难以(描述或理解)

And the author of a book called, Awakening. And I asked him to try to recall the very first meditative experience he had when he became convinced of the truth of, of the not self doctrine. ··>> In words, [LAUGH] which already throws me way off stillness.

还是一本书，叫《苏醒》，的作者。我请他试着回想那个第一次的冥想经验，当他确信那个真谛，非我教义的真谛。··>> 简单滴说，那已经让我远离了寂静？

Awakening：苏醒 stillness：寂静，宁静

2:22 There was no contention, okay? And therefore, it was a, there, it felt, stillness was not a contained state. It was infinite. Infinite stillness, because there was no distance. Infinity comes into play when there isn't any distance. It's the only time it comes into play.

没有争论，好吗？因此，它是，那里，它感觉像，寂静，不是一个包含的状态。它是无限。无限的静止，因为没有距离，无限现身，当没有任何距离。就是在那个时候它出现了。

contention： (争论或讨论时的)看法，观点；不和;争吵;争执 contained：包含;含有；控制，抑制(感情)

2:40 So when there is no object that is counter to yourself, or yourself that is counter to an object, then there is infinity. So I would say infinity, I would say stillness, and, and universal awareness.

所以当没有对象，与你自己冲突，或者你自己是与一个对象冲突，然后有无限。所以我将说无限，我将说静止，还有普遍意识。

counter：与…相对;与…冲突 universal：普遍的；全体的；宇宙的;全世界的 universal awareness：普遍意识

··>> Now, by universal awareness, he doesn't mean that he was aware of the whole universe. He just means that he got the sense that awareness, is kind of a property of, of the universe（华佼注：应该是universal）, in a, in a sense. And what he had previously thought of as himself, or his own little realm of consciousness was actually just kind of a particular part of this larger expansive awareness or, or a point of access to it.

现在，普遍意识，他不是指，他觉察到整个宇宙，他是指，他获得了觉知的感觉。是一种普遍的特性，在某个意义上。他之前认为的他自己，或者他自己的小领域，意识的，实际上只是这个大的扩展的觉知的一个特别部分，或者一个点，访问它的一个点。

··>> It's like, here's an example. If you take the air around you, alright. The air around you is 360. It's everywhere. This doesn't apply any pressure, it's there. Okay, now make the air awareness. Alive.

··>> 它像，这是例子。如果你让空气环绕你，好吧，空气环绕你360度。它无处不在。这不适用于任何压力，它就在那里。现在做空气觉知？觉察到的。

apply：适用于 Alive：继续存在的;在起作用的；注意到的；意识到的；觉察到的

··>> Mm-hm.

嗯。

··>> That's what it feels like. It feels like you're being surrounded internally and externally by something that is not self-generated.

那是它感觉像什么。它感觉像你被内部包围了，外部被什么东西，不是自我产生的东西包围了。

··>> Not every meditator who has had this not-self experience would describe it the way Rodney did, but there were two themes in what he said that are pretty common in these reports. One, is just the idea that there, there's a sense that you're awareness, your consciousness is, is in fact not something that's really defined by a self. I've heard the term owner-less consciousness. As a reference to this.

不是每个冥想者，有这个非我经验的冥想者，会像Rodney形容的方式形容它。但是有两个主题，他说的，在这些报告里非常常见。一个，只是观点，有一个意义，你是有觉知的，你的意识，实际上不是那个东西，真的被定义为自我的东西。我听说过术语无主意识。作为这个的参考。

owner-less：无主

4:17 And the other thing when, when Rodney talked about there being no sense of, of opposition between any self and any other other object.

另一件事，当Rodney谈论这没有感觉，在任何自我和任何其他对象之间的相反面。

4:26 That would fall under the, under the heading of kind of transcending the, the subject object duality which is another, another thing you hear.

那将属于超越主观对象二元性的标题下，那是另一个事情，你听到的另一个事情。

fall under：属于 transcending：超越 duality：双重性;二元性

4:37 Both of those things are very hard for me to wrap my mind around. and, and I would say do qualify for what William James called ineffable, in, in some sense. But I do think that there's a, a more straight forward way to try to get a sense, for what people mean by not self.

两个事情对我来说都很难去想。我将要说，符合，为William James称为不可言喻的东西。在某个意义上。但是我确实认为，有一个更直接的方式去得到一个感觉，对人们称为非我的东西。

to wrap my mind around：去想

There's another avenue we can take. And that is to ask meditators who have had this experience, to talk a little about what thoughts, what their thoughts seem like during mediation. We've talked about feelings and how meditation can give you a kind of different relationship to your feelings.

有另一个大道我们可以走。那是问冥想者，有这个经验的，去说说一点关于想法，他们的想法，看起来像什么，在冥想期间。我们已经谈论了感觉，和冥想怎样给你一个与你的感觉不同的关系。

Well we, we haven't really talked about much about what thoughts might seem like to the very serious meditator. And I think that can be a fruitful path here. So I talked about that to, to Joseph Goldstein. Who's a very important thinker in, in American Buddhism and has played an important role in really the development of American Buddhism over the last few decades.

我们没有真的谈论很多关于思想，可能看起来，对于非常严肃的冥想者。我想，那可以是一个有成效的路径。所以我谈论了那个，向Joseph Goldstein。他是一个非常重要的思想者，在美国佛教中。他有很重要的作用，在过去几十年美国佛教的实际发展中。

fruitful：富有成效的;有收获的

About 40 years ago, having spent some time in Asia, he came back and founded, along with Sharon Salsberg and Jack Cornfield, the insight meditation society, that has become a very important institution in kind of spreading awareness of, in particular vipassana meditation. He's also written a lot of books including The Experience of Insight about vipassana meditation. Anyway I did raise this question of kind of thoughts with Joseph. What, what thoughts seem like during meditation.

40年前，花了一些时间在亚洲，他回来，建立了，和Sharon Salsberg和Jack Cornfield一起，顿悟冥想协会，那后来变成了一个非常重要的机构，传播，特别是vipassana冥想的意识。他也写了很多书，包括《顿悟的经验》，关于内观冥想。无论如何，我提出了这个问题，关于Joseph的想法。在冥想期间，看起来是什么想法。

insight meditation：顿悟冥想 society：协会，社团 vipassana：内观

··>> So, one little exercise to do. This kind of, it's kind of a fun exercise. Es, especially if you're sitting in a group, just to play it a little bit and to imagine that every thought that's arising in your mind is coming from the person next to you. I just [LAUGH]. Notice, if that would make a difference in how you're relating to the thought.

一个小的练习要做。那像是一个有趣的练习。特别是，如果你坐在一个群体里，只是去一点点地玩，去想象每个想法，在你大脑里升起的，是来自你旁边的那个人。我只是，注意，如果那个将会变得有些不同，在你怎样联系那个想法。

··>> Mm-hm.

嗯。

··>> And, and I, it, it can, it can give you a sense that, the identification with thought, is extra.

我，它能给你一个感觉，与思想的认同，是额外的。

6:54 ··>> Okay.

好吧。

··>> The thought, the thought itself is appearing, disappearing. Like a sound.

那个想法，那个想法自己再出现，消失，就像一个声音。

6:58 But being identified with it, is something we're adding.

但是认同它是我们加进去的东西。

··>> Okay, so then in meditation, there can be the sense that thoughts are just kind of coming out of nowhere so to speak. Almost like, like voices although it's not like you're.

好吧。所以在冥想中，能是那种感觉，思想只是不知道从哪里出来，所以说，很像，声音，尽管它不是像你是的东西。

··>> Yeah.

是的。

··>> Hearing things maybe literally but it's more like.

听到东西，可能字面意思但是它更像？

··>> Correct, correct.

对的，对的

··>> As you might guess the way he put that reminds me of the modular view of the mind and the modular view of the mind, the conscious mind doesn't really generate the thoughts But rather the thoughts are generated by some modules outside of the realm of, of consciousness. Michael Gazzaniga an adherent of the module review of the mind, who we've mentioned and, and who did those split brain experi, experiments that we talked about earlier has put it this way.

像你可能猜测的，他解释这个的方式，让我想起，大脑的模块化观点，有意识的大脑不是真的产生思想，而是思想被某些模块，在意识之外的领域的模块。Michael Gazzaniga，一个大脑模块化观点的支持者，我们已经提到过，他做了一些裂脑实验，我们之前谈论过，用这个方式解释过。

Gazzaniga has written it's a dog-eat-dog world going on in your brain with different systems competing to make it to the surface to win the prize of conscious recognition. So, as he puts it, whichever notion you happened to be conscious of at a particular moment, is the one that comes bubbling up. The one that becomes dominant.

Gazzaniga有写过，在你的大脑里，它是一个狗咬狗的世界，有不同的系统竞争，让它浮到表面，去赢得被意识辨认出来的奖励。（华佼注：这个比喻惊艳了。）所以，像他解释的那样，任何观点，你恰好意识到了，在一个特别的时刻，是那个，冒出来的。那个变得占统治地位。

dominant：占支配（或统治）地位的;占优势的;显著的

Normally we don't see the bubbling up, right? We don't see a thought kind of enter the conscious realm. Rather we can identify with it immediately apparently and just thunk that the conscious mind generated the thought. And maybe meditation, by kind of calming the mind, making the mind still. Lets you actually see the thought emerging consciousness before you identify with it.

通常我们没有看到冒泡，对吗？我们没有看到一个思想，进入意识领域。更确切地说，我们能辨别它立刻，显然地，只是，duang，那个意识大脑产生那个想法。也许冥想，通过让大脑冷静，让大脑安静。让你真正看到想法浮现出来的意识，在你认同它之前。（华佼注：值得记住的思想。）

Rather：更确切地说 thunk：duang，a dull hollow sound; 一声闷响 emerging：（事实或结果）显露，显现，暴露；（机构、行业等）形成，兴起，出现

In any event, once I kind of saw the parallels between what Joseph Goldstein was saying and this modular view of the mind, I kind of pressed him on the point and, and, and tried to kind of crystallize the parallels. Let me see if I have this right. During meditation. You, you could begin to see that, or, or come to believe that. Whereas you might have thought, all your life you're thinking, thoughts, the thing you think of you as, is thinking the thoughts. It's closer to being the case that the thoughts try to capture you. The thing you [CROSSTALK]

在任何情况下，一旦我看到相似之处，在Joseph Goldstein说的东西，和这个大脑的模块化观点之间，我把他按在那个点上，试着把这些相似之处具体化。让我看看是否我有这个权利（？？？）在冥想期间。你你能开始看到，或者开始相信那个。Whereas你可能有的想法，你整个人生都在想，想法，你认为你自己是的那个东西，在想这个想法。它更接近这个情况，想法试着抓住你。这个东西

parallels：（两者间的）近似之处，相似之处；（存在或发生在不同地点或时间的）相似之物，类似物 crystallize the parallels：把这些相似之处具体化 crystallize：(使)(意见或想法)明确;(使)具体化； (使)形成晶体;(使)结晶

··>> Yeah.

是的。

··>> Think of as you. Right, I mean, they, they, they come from somewhere.

你认为是你的东西。对的，我是指，它们来自某处。

··>> Right.

对的。

··>> Somewhere in your body. Somewhere in your brain. But [CROSSTALK]

在你身体里的某些地方。在你大脑里的某个地方。但是

··>> Yes.

是的。

··>> But. Okay, so far, so good. But then at this point I started leading the witness a little farther than he wanted to go.

但是，好吧，迄今为止。但是那么在这个点上，我开始把证人导向比他想要去的要更远一点的地方。

witness： 见证人;连署人

··>> But.

但是

··>> Yes.

是的

··>> But whatever part of your body, your brain, you're thinking of as you, is more like the, the captive of the thoughts, the thoughts reach out and try to grab it and carry it with them.

但是无论你身体，你大脑的什么部分，你认为是你的东西，更像是那些思想的俘虏，那些思想伸出手，试着抓住它，让它带着这些思想。

captive：俘虏;扣押;关押 the captive of：的俘虏 reach out：伸出手

··>> So. Well I think that. That's kind of an interesting way to describe it and it certainly feels like that. But I, I would phrase it a little differently. It's just that the thoughts are arising.

所以，我想，那是一个有趣的方式去描述它。它当然感觉像那样。但是我将会形容它，有一点点不同地。它只是那个想法，在产生的。

··>> Mm-hm.

嗯。

··>> And there is a strong habit of mind to be identified with them. So it's not so much that I think they have the intent to reach out and kind of trust.

大脑有一个强烈的习惯，就是要认同他们。所以我认为他们不是有意去接触和信任的？

It's...that... So it's not so much that I think they have the intent to reach out and kind of trust. = So I think they doesn't have so much intent to reach out and kind of trust？

intent: 意图;目的

··>> Yeah. Yeah.

对的。

··>> But rather, rather it's just this very strongly conditioned habitual identification. This is how we've lived our lives.

但是，更确切地说，更确切地说它只是这个非常强烈的有条件的习惯性认同。这是我们怎么生活的方式。

··>> Mm-hm.

嗯。

··>> And it, it takes a practice to break that condition. You know, to be mindful of the thought rather than to be lost in it.

它需要一些训练去打断那个状况。你知道，对想法专注，而不是在里面迷失。

··>> Okay, so Joseph says it, it's, it's going too far to think of the thoughts as actually alive and trying to capture your attention. And I think that's going too far too. But he also said that that's what it feels like. And that makes sense, in terms of a modular view of the mind. If a module, having reached a certain level of activation, succeeds in propelling a thought into your consciousness, it might seem that the thought has a certain vibrance.

好吧，所以Joseph 说它是，去的太远去认为想法，作为实际的活的，试着去抓住的注意。我也认为这走的太远。但是他也说了，那感觉像是那样。那说得通，根据大脑的模块化观点。如果一个模块，有达到某个水平的激活，成功地推进一个想法到你的意识里，它可能看起来思想有某种振动。

propeliing：推进 vibrance：振动

10:45 In any event, Joseph's basic report that during mediation often it seems like you are not the one thinking your thoughts. That report is quite common, I have heard a number of meditation teachers say thoughts think themselves, now, I'd say that's not exactly right. I'd say modules generate the thoughts, but again, it, it might seem to you like the thoughts think themselves because the, the modules are kind of outside of the realm of, of consciousness so the thoughts seem to enter consciousness of their own accord.

在任何情况下，Joseph的基本报告，在冥想期间，它常常看起来像你不是那个想你想法的那个你。那个报告是相当常见，我已经听了很多冥想老师说，想法是自己在想，现在我说，那是相当正确。我要说，模块产生了想法，但是再次，对你它可能看起来想法自己在想，因为模块是在意识领域之外，所以想法看起来自愿进入意识。

accord：自愿地；主动地；自动地;不借助外力地

He did not quit as France's prime minister of his own accord. 他辞去法国总理职务并非出于自愿。

So anyway, once I led the witness a little too far I kind of, I kind of backed off a little and, and, and took another shot at, at the subject with, with Joseph and tried to kind of get clear on exactly what, what, what rendering of the basic idea he would accept. But, but let me just put it this way. Thoughts become to seem much more like. Active things, than the things you know, than passive things. In other words, they're actors in your consciousness that you've got to deal with, and you're in the habit of going along with them, but that's not necessary.

所以无论如何，一旦我把证人引得有点儿太远，我就退回去一点点，进行另一个尝试，对那个对象，跟Joseph，试着变得更清楚一点，在什么，他将接受的基本观点的翻译。但是，让我只是这样解释。想法变得看起来非常像，主动的事情，你知道，比起消极的事情。换句话说，它们是演员，在你的意识里，你要对付的，你在那个习惯里，跟它们一起的习惯里，但是那没必要。（华佼注：整段理解不太清晰。）

witness：证人 took another shot：把另一个镜头 rendering：翻译；(剧本、诗歌或音乐作品的)演绎，表演

··>> Correct.

对的。

12:00 And they become a lot less active, when we see them for what they are. When we're not pulled into the drama of them. You know, it's sort of like going to the movies. We, we go to the movies and there's a very absorbing story, and we're pulled into the story. And we field so many emotions and you know, we're excited, or afraid, or in love, whatever.

它们变得更少主动。当我们看到它们，为它们是的东西。当我们没有被拉近到它们的戏里。你知道，有点像去看电影。我们去看电影，有一个非常吸引人的故事，我们被拉进到那个故事里。我们堆积了许多情绪，你知道，我们激动，害怕或者恋爱，什么的。

absorbing：非常有趣的；引人入胜的

12:22 And then maybe in a moment we sit back and say, oh, this is just lights. These are just pixels of light projected on a screen.

那么可能在一个时刻，我们坐回来，说，哦，这是光。这些只是投射到屏幕上光的像素。

··>> Mm-hm.

嗯。

··>> Right. And nothing. Everything that we thought is happening is not really happening.

对的，什么都没有。任何事情，我们认为正在发生的，并没有真的发生。

··>> Mm.

嗯。

··>> It's the same way with our thoughts. We get caught up in the story, in the mind's drama of them. Forgetting they are essentially insubstantial nature.

这是同样的方式，对我们的想法来说。我们被那个故事吸引了，沉浸在他们内心的戏剧里。忘记了它们本质上是虚拟的。

get caught up：被缠住 insustantial： insubstantial：不大的;不坚固的;脆弱的；无实体的，无实质的； 非实在的

··>> Now, this may remind you of something that Yitha, our friend the Buddhist nun said earlier not about thoughts, but about feelings, and in case if you don't remember, here is a flashback.

现在，这个可能提醒你Yifa的一些事。我们的朋友，女佛教徒，之前说，不是关于想法，而是关于感觉。假如你不记得，这是回放。

··>> It's just like you are watching a movie, the movie is, it's a kind of a, in a picture by picture, in motion and you, you grasp it as real. But, when you you know, take a one by one, a piece by piece, it's not real.

那只是像，你在看一个电影，电影是一种，一个图片接一个图片，运动的，你抓住它，像它是真的一样。但是当，你知道，一个接一个，一片接一片，它不是真的。

13:17 ··>> So, I think it's interesting that both thoughts and feelings are being described here with that same metaphor of a movie.

所以我认为这很有趣，想法和感觉，都被描述，在这里，和那个同样的电影比喻一起。

13:25 And maybe there's connection between these two things. I mean what Joseph said suggested that when feelings are running strong the thoughts seem kind of more tangible and, and more part of you.

也许，有一个联系，在这两个东西之间。我是指，Joseph说的东西，暗示着，当感觉在起作用时，增强了想法，看起来更加脆弱，更加是你的一部分。

13:40 And as I said earlier, there is the view that even when feelings aren't running really strong, still thoughts tend to have a kind of an affective quality. Some, some kind of feeling tone associating within. And if so, it could be that the feeling associated with the thought is kind of what, what attaches it to you, what makes it feel part of yourself. What inclines you to, to kind of own it. So, the feeling tone of a thought then becomes a kind of cement.

像我之前描述的，有人认为，即使感觉不是很强烈的起作用，想法仍然，倾向于有一种有情感的特质。某些，感觉基调，所联系在内的。如果这样，什么让它感觉是你自己的一部分？什么让你倾向于，拥有它。所以，一个想法的感觉基调，然后变成一种cement。

affective quality：情感的特质 inclines：（使）偏向；（使）认为； (使)倾向;(使)趋向 cement：水泥；胶接剂;接合剂

14:11 that's, that's mere conjecture. But, I think it's kind of plausible conjecture. Certainly it would explain why it is that, that as you meditate and the mind gets more calm and still and the feeling seem to lose their, their power. Then the thoughts also seem less tangible.

那是，只是猜测。但是，我认为这是合理的推测。当然它将解释为什么它是那个，那个当你冥想，大脑变得更加平静，感觉看起来失去了它们的力量。那么想法，也看起来更少能感觉到。

conjecture：推测;猜测 plausible conjecture：貌似合理的推测 plausible：（解释或说法）似乎真实的，貌似合理的 tangible：清晰可见的;摸得着的;感觉得到的;明显的

14:31 And a little more remote.

也有点更远了。

14:33 In any event the, the kind of practical upshot of this is pretty clear.

在任何情况下，实际的这个的结果，是真的清楚。

upshot：（通常指意外的）结果，结局

14:39 ··>> So when we have that basis of wisdom about the nature of thought, then we have more power to choose. Okay, which thoughts are helpful. Which are going to serve me, serve others, then react on them, which are not so helpful, those we can more easily let go.

当我们有基本的智慧，关于想法的本质，那么我们有更多力量去选择。好的，哪个想法更有帮助。哪个将会对我有好处，对其他有好处，那么，对不是很有帮助的想法反应，我们能更轻易地放手那些想法。（华佼注：值得采用的观点。）

··>> Okay so that brings us back to the more modest version of, of not self, in other words, just thinking well, there are these feeling I don't have to own or there are these thoughts that I don't have to own or consider part of myself and you, and you, you view it that way but without really letting go of the concept of a self.

好吧，所以带我们回到那个非我的更加温和的版本。换句话说，只是想，好吧，有这些感觉，我不必拥有，或者有这些想法，我不必拥有，或者认为是我自己的一部分，你，你以那种方式看待它，但是没有真的放手自我的概念。

But it could be this, this modest version of not self leads kind of naturally to the more extreme all in composing version of, of not self. In other words you start out thinking well I don't have to own that thought, I don't have to own that feeling. And then you, you, you might start to think well then in principle I don't have to own any of them. And the implications of that might dawn on you.

但是它可能是这个，这个非我的温和版本，自然地引向更加极端的，全部构成非我的版本。换句话说，你开始想，好吧，我不必要拥有那个想法，我不必要拥有那个感觉。那么你可能开始向，好吧，那么原则上，我不必拥有它们的任何一个。那个的含义可能吸引你。

composing：组成;构成 implications：暗示;暗指;含意

15:42 Anyway I ran this idea past Joseph. So we've said, you don't really have to identify with your thoughts, even if you're in the habit of it. We earlier said you don't really have to identify with your emotions, even if you're in the habit of it. And this is you know, you can kind of see how you start looking at all aspects of subjective experience like this. You could be led to doubt the very existence of self. And this, this is the logic to some extent of the Buddhist's argument. For the non existence of self, right? As framed in the context of what are called the five aggregates.

无论如何，我把这个观点从Joseph那里传过去了。所以我们说过，你不是真的必须认同你的想法。（华佼注：值得记住的观点。）即使如果你习惯了它。我们早先说过你不必真的必须认同你的情绪，即使你习惯了它。这是，你知道，你能看到，你怎样开始看到像这样的主观经验的所有方面。你能导向怀疑，自我的存在。这个，这是佛教论断的逻辑，在某种程度上。对于自我的不存在，对吗？像在被称为五蕴的上下文中构建的。？？？

··>> Yes, yes.

是的，是的

··>> The way, the way Buddhist thought divides your experience in these five aggregates, some of which we've talked about.

那个方式，佛教思想把你的经验分成五个集合，我们之前谈过的。

··>> Yes.

是的。

··>> That's the logic of the argument, right? There's nothing in your experience. That you have to, that you are really intrinsically identified with.

那是论断的逻辑，对吗？在你的经验里什么都没有。那些你不得不，那些你真的本质上认同的。

intrinsically：内在的;本身的;固有的

··>> Exactly.

完全正确。

··>> Okay, so there's there's a kind of organic connection between the modest and extreme versions of the, of the not self doctrine, in at least a kind of logical, intellectual sense. In other words you realize that you don't have to identify with some of your thoughts or feelings and then you realize that well, in principle you don't have to identify with any of, with any of them.

好吧，所以有一种有机的联系，在温和的和极端的非我教义的版本，至少，在一种逻辑上、智力上的意义。换句话说，你意识到，你不用必须认同某些你的思想或者感觉，然后你意识到，好吧，原则上，你不必认同它们中的任何一个。

But what about experientially? What about the feeling of not self? Is it the case that if you start out kind of, feeling through meditation, that, wow, I don't, I don't really have to own this particular feeling or this particular thought. Does that naturally lead you to get where, say Rodney Smith was? and, and have the experience of full-on not self. Well, in a way, Joseph Goldstein seems like a good example of this. So, do you mean, you, you have a sense of distance from your consciousness itself?

但是，关于体验层面，关于非我的感觉呢？它是这个情况吗？如果你开始通过冥想感到，哇，我不用真的必须拥有这个特别的感觉，或者这个特别的想法。自然地，那个把你导向到那里，说Rodney Smith说的那里？有那个完全的非我的经验。好吧，在某种程度上，Joseph Goldstein看起来像是这个的好例子。所以，你是指，你有一个距离的感觉，从你的意识自己那里？

experientially：经验上 in a way：在某种程度上

17:37 ··>> I wouldn't, I wouldn't so much say use the term distance as non-identification with.

我不会，我不会这样说，使用“距离”这个词语，作为非认同的？

··>> Mm-hm.

是的。

··>> There's the experience of consciousness, and every object of thoughts, emotions, decisions.

有意识的经验，每个想法，情绪，决定的对象。

17:54 So there's the experience without being identified with them.

所以有这个经验，没有被认同。

··>> Okay.

好吧。

··>> And that's when we begin to get a sense of the selfless nature.

那是，当我们开始有一种对无我本质的感觉。

··>> Now, that doesn't sound exactly like Rodney Smith's description of the experience of not self, but it's kind of moving in that direction. It does sound this theme of ownerless consciousness.

现在，那不会听起来完全像Rodney Smith对非我经验的描述，但是它没有往那个移动。它确实听起来这个主题，无主的意识。

18:14 And that raises a, a question. You know, when you are not identifying with your consciousness where is the you that's not identifying with it, right? When you're seeing not self don't you have to be seeing it from some perspective well I, I guess you have to be there. I mean I guess this is what, what William James meant by ineffable.

那提出了一个问题。你知道，当你没有认同你的意识，那个你在哪里？那个没有认同它的你。对吗？当你在看非我，难道你不是必须在看它，从某个角度，我猜你必须在那里。我是指，我猜这是什么，这是William James用不可言喻所指的意思。

But it does remind me of a question raised by Leda Cosbys, the pychologist we heard from earlier when she was talking about mental modules which she was calling mechanisms. And she was talking about how pervasively they influence our perception. And here's what she said.

但是它确实提醒了我，一个问题，Leda Cosbys提出的。那个心理学家我们早先听说过的，她在谈论精神模块，她称为机制的。她在谈论怎么全面的，他们影响了我们的知觉。这是她说的。

pervasive：遍布的；贯穿始终的；四处弥漫的

··>> There's always some psychological mechanism doing something. It's creating our experience of the world. It's creating our perception of the world.

总有某些心理的机制做某些事情。它在创造我们对这个世界的经验。它创造了我们对这个世界的知觉。

19:08 it, it, that's why I wouldn't say that domain specific mechanisms color our perceptions, I'd say that they create our perceptions. But there's no such thing as perceiving the world in a way that doesn't involve carving it in some, carving it conceptually into pieces. There's no right activity from nowhere.

它，那是为什么我不会说，特定领域的机制会影响我们的知觉。我要说，他们创造了我们的知觉。但是没有这样的事情，像看世界，以一种方式，那不会包括在概念上把它切成碎片。没有地方没有正确的行为。

domain：(尤指某人有控制力、影响力或权利的)领域，范围，范畴 color：影响 carving：雕刻，分割

··>> Okay, in the next lecture, we're going to ask whether there is a view from nowhere, and if not, what the closest thing to that is. Or, to put it another way, we're going to look at the Buddhist concept of enlightenment from the standpoint of evolutionary psychology. And we're going to do some other things in that lecture, after all, it's the, it's the final lecture. I'm going to try to, to wrap up a number of the threads that have been running through this course. And render a kind of evaluation of key points of Buddhist thought from the standpoint of modern psychology.

好吧，在下一讲，我们将要问，是否，有一个观点，从无处，如果不是，最接近那个的东西是什么？或者，用另一种方式，我们将要看那个佛教的开悟的概念，从进化心理学的立场。我们将要做某些其他事情，在那个课里，毕竟，它是最后一课。我将要试着，去解开很多主线，一直在这个课程里的存在的主线。从现代心理学的角度对佛教思想的关键观点进行了一种评价。

standpoint：立场，观点 threads：主线;思路;脉络 render：宣布，作出(判决、决定或回应) evaluation, not evolution: 评估;评价

20:02 And I'm going to look again at the question of whether Buddhism offers a spiritual world view that is valid. And viable even in an age of science. [BLANK_AUDIO]

我将要再看一次那个问题，佛教是否提供了一个精神世界的有效观点，即使在科学时代也是有效。

Source： https://www.coursera.org/learn/science-of-meditation/lecture/upoIb/the-experience-of-not-self